tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post4831535608685166101..comments2023-09-21T01:51:15.719-07:00Comments on The Dead Horse Times: Portland, TriMet, and the Bus/Rail DebateEngineerScottyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11005863528905991434noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-45430698965972245012010-05-23T21:39:55.562-07:002010-05-23T21:39:55.562-07:00Anonymous,
I discuss the cost of Milwaukie MAX--a...Anonymous,<br /><br />I discuss the cost of Milwaukie MAX--all $1.4 billion of it, according to the current estimates, in <a href="http://deadhorsetimes.blogspot.com/2010/05/five-questions-about-milwaukie-max.html" rel="nofollow">this post</a>. I don't discuss all the revenue sources (many are upset by the $250 million lottery grant from the state), but I do discuss the rather contentious issue of the bonding of payroll tax revenue as well--which I am on record as opposing. <br /><br />The Portland-to-Oregon City corridor is a good corridor for conversion to rail--it has sufficient volume to justify such a thing, and is long enough that light rail (if done right) can offer a substantial performance improvements to users of the line. The corridor itself is hardly "indefensible". Whether the project as currently planned is a good implementation is another matter.<br /><br />Since I don't know who you are--what do you think ought to be done--both on this corridor, and as an overall transit strategy, both short-term and long-term?EngineerScottyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005863528905991434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-63761088275444653172010-05-23T21:13:27.555-07:002010-05-23T21:13:27.555-07:00EngineerScotty,
Following your comments at Portla...EngineerScotty,<br /><br />Following your comments at PortlandTransport I'll have to say you have compltely missed both the cost of Milwaukie Light Rail and the source of revenue. Both disqualify the line period,<br /><br />Your defense of the indefensible lacks any genuine assessment. Instead you've obfuscated and ginned up invalid excuses for proceeding wiht the project.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-44923033744901861382010-05-17T22:44:11.289-07:002010-05-17T22:44:11.289-07:00A train from a Center Street station wouldn't ...A train from a Center Street station wouldn't have to travel very far before it became a true Yellow--and not at all if Milwaukie MAX becomes an extension of Yellow, rather than Orange.<br /><br />At any rate, the idea suggested is thinking out loud--TriMet may well have already looked into the issue and decided that it's not worth it--or that existing bus services at Center Street simply cannot be displaced.EngineerScottyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005863528905991434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-34947749780411468372010-05-17T00:28:42.878-07:002010-05-17T00:28:42.878-07:00right now Yellow and Green trains, when out of ser...<i>right now Yellow and Green trains, when out of service, go to Ruby for garaging and maintenance--<b>which is way out of the way, especially for the Yellow trains.</b></i><br /><br />Yellow/Green are the same trains, so that part really isn't an issue. And I'm not sure adding a yard near 17th & Center Street would save a lot in terms of travel time (if I'm correct in assuming that's part of what you're driving at) - right now a train leaving the Ruby yard heading for Expo makes the trip in about 51 minutes. To go from Expo to PSU south (where the Milwaukie line will extend from) takes about 36 minutes. In order to take a comparable amount of time as originating from Ruby, that would leave about 15 minutes to travel from PSU to Holgate/17th, which is 6 planned stations away from PSU, and that's not feasible because I doubt the speed limit along the Orange Line will exceed 35mph, if it's even that high.<br /><br /><i> Technically, the trains don't deadhead, as they remain in service until they reach the last stop prior to the yard--but the "yard runs" generally aren't a valuable part of the route planning.</i><br /><br />Well some of the trains deadhead, but Yellow/Greens don't. And there are only 4 trains in the morning that go directly to Expo and 6 in the evening, and looking at their service times I disagree that they're not valuable, though I guess one could argue that a 4:19am train at Rose Quarter is too early to be valuable but I think that's a separate issue than what you are addressing.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16478823611548227849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-26007933540092920272010-05-16T12:22:25.428-07:002010-05-16T12:22:25.428-07:00Al--the desire for rail isn't just something c...Al--the desire for rail isn't just something conjured up by developers looking for a chunk of pork--many transit advocates, who have no financial stake in these things whatsoever, call for it. Even excluding cost analyses (which puts you in a difficult position; one of the touted benefits of rail is that more passengers can be hauled by a single operator, meaning less jobs for guys like you)--it does provide quite a few benefits to transit riders, when used appropriately. How much of TriMet's rail buildout is "appropriate" is a separate question.<br /><br />Certainly, there's lots of pork-barrel politics at work. But that's true for almost any infrastructure--roads, BRT, ports, airports.<br /><br />J--the PSU/Union shuttle may well be a "placeholder" until the Orange Line goes in service. Regarding TriMet's maintenance facilities; right now Yellow and Green trains, when out of service, go to Ruby for garaging and maintenance--which is way out of the way, especially for the Yellow trains. Technically, the trains don't deadhead, as they remain in service until they reach the last stop prior to the yard--but the "yard runs" generally aren't a valuable part of the route planning.<br /><br />The Milwaukie Line will run right past the front gate of the Center Street facility. Currently, TriMet has no plans to add any rail facilities to Center Street (it is, after all, the primary bus facility), but there might be some operational advantage in doing so. Not only is it close to the Yellow and Green line termini, but it's also adjacent to the UPRR mainline--so it might make it easier for TriMet to take delivery of rolling stock shipped via the freight rails. Ruby isn't located near any freight lines; Elmonica has a P&W spur nearby but one which doesn't quite reach the yard.<br /><br />One issue with this is there isn't much room at Center Street--which is why shifting more bus ops to Ruby might make sense. (And if they are serious about TOD, relocating the Powell and 98th facility to Ruby would open up some good real estate for other purposes).<br /><br />Whether or not any of this would pencil out, I don't know.EngineerScottyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005863528905991434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-68379971417073132872010-05-15T22:24:33.068-07:002010-05-15T22:24:33.068-07:00Cutting MAX service is actually--in many circumsta...<i>Cutting MAX service is actually--in many circumstances--a poor choice; as MAX enjoys greater operational efficiencies than do bus lines</i><br /><br />The PSU/Union Station shuttle can probably be cut with no real impact to service since it's interspersed withe Yellow and Green trains anyway. I'm assuming that had been put in to ease the transition from buses being Fareless as well, but I think people are pretty well accommodated to that by now and that particular run isn't especially useful.<br /><br /><i>Consider making Ruby Junction Yards and the 17th Avenue barns bi-modal facilities, in order to reduce deadheading of both eastsid busses and trains</i><br /><br />Can you expand on what you mean by this?Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16478823611548227849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-55085536621908306102010-05-15T21:51:50.152-07:002010-05-15T21:51:50.152-07:00Macfarlane is just a Hansen clone.
There is a bias...Macfarlane is just a Hansen clone.<br />There is a bias to rail, not just in Portland but across the country.<br />I'm convinced its because of the huge capital costs involved and that gets tax money into the hands of the private sector.<br />Government today is basically an extension of the corporate oligarchy. It lives and breaths corporate power.<br />Transit falls to pieces across the country yet the Feds fund all sorts of rail projects.<br />Our government has been completely unresponsive to the needs of ordinary citizens for a long time now.<br />Trimet policy is nothing but an extension of big government (aka corporate oligarchy) complete with its very own "elite" executives who walk away with millions of tax payer dollars while average Joe can't get to work.<br />(end of rant)Al Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06670275801784105978noreply@blogger.com