tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post7292560722793156907..comments2023-09-21T01:51:15.719-07:00Comments on The Dead Horse Times: Transit minimalism, and why the left and the right frequently come together to oppose railEngineerScottyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11005863528905991434noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-35898445671928157682010-10-20T10:38:14.055-07:002010-10-20T10:38:14.055-07:00Thanks!Thanks!EngineerScottyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005863528905991434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-68973912104207211342010-10-20T08:56:31.021-07:002010-10-20T08:56:31.021-07:00I'm a lurker and an Oregon voter doing her bes...I'm a lurker and an Oregon voter doing her best to make a reasoned decision on 26-119. Your well-written commentary and the civil thoughtful dialogue from others here are truly helpful.<br /><br />I still have more reading to do before I vote, but thanks for lighting one voter's way.<br /><br />Voter MaryAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11553761591073108899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-76206996787441801582010-10-19T11:01:50.602-07:002010-10-19T11:01:50.602-07:00Agree 100% about the "capital projects" ...Agree 100% about the "capital projects" only rule--a rule whose purpose, it seems, is to prevent grants from being used to grant pay/benefits increases to transit workers. If it were the other way around, we'd probably have a much more extensive bus system, but little if any mass transit--a state of affairs which actually would probably work well within the city of Portland, but which would scale poorly out into the suburbs. <br /><br />Regarding anonymous jitneys--from what I know of the control technology, it's still longer than a decade off. I have yet to see even a prototype of such a thing that's anywhere near ready for operation in mixed traffic. While a mixed jitney network would help with the parking issue, and in theory could make better use of roads than human-driven cars, there's still also the energy issue--smaller vehicles, especially self-propelled ones, have high vehicle-weight-to-passenger-weight ratios.EngineerScottyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005863528905991434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-36978685345359264382010-10-19T07:59:39.812-07:002010-10-19T07:59:39.812-07:00One issue which has been picked up more by economi...One issue which has been picked up more by economic conservatives than the other two groups is the incredible distortion resulting from federal Highway Trust Fund money going into capital projects but not operations. Imagine, for a moment, if it were the other way around. <br /><br />Another is change; societal and technological change. Just like so many long gone military leaders who kept on planning and building for the last war, we seem to be planning and spending for the last century. Jobs are migrating out of Portland and into suburban counties, we're aging, and, with the internet, we simply don't bother to travel to accomplish all our day-to-day business. <br /><br />I think the "killer app" re: transit-as-we-know-it will be autonomous jitneys which should make their first appearance somewhere in the world within 10 years. When they finally come to Portland --- and guaranteed we won't be an early adopter on this one --- we'll say "goodbye" to all regular transit bus operations and almost all rail/BRT transit except that which has an absolute time saving advantage. Paradoxically, the original Portland Streetcar alignment would probably survive, particularly if it continues to provide "free" rides.R A Fontesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-36594926524346245652010-08-25T14:56:54.277-07:002010-08-25T14:56:54.277-07:00Yonah at The Transport Politic has an interesting ...Yonah at <a href="http://www.thetransportpolitic.com" rel="nofollow">The Transport Politic</a> has an <a href="http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/08/25/the-politics-of-mode-choice/" rel="nofollow">interesting take</a> on the subject, from a different angle.EngineerScottyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005863528905991434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-77609261693852409872010-08-15T13:35:30.274-07:002010-08-15T13:35:30.274-07:00Transit should be designed for everyone in mind, n...Transit should be designed for everyone in mind, not just the poor and disabled or only the wealthier citizenry.<br /><br />The best comment you made was that rapid transit needs a mostly dedicated right of way. Whatever mode that operates on that dedicated right of way is not important and it will always be different given the corridor dynamics.<br /><br />Such a good way to look at it, and it gets away from the rail-only or bus-only viewpoint!wshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17747279651073130352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-70108357593914322072010-08-13T23:58:28.962-07:002010-08-13T23:58:28.962-07:00@John,
Thanks for commenting, and for clarifying ...@John,<br /><br />Thanks for commenting, and for clarifying the position of OPAL. I suspected that your position was indeed more nuanced--your organization appears to take good care to avoid the crass demagoguery of some other "social justice" agencies I can think of (LA's Bus Rider's Union comes to mind). As poncho points out in his comment, making transit attractive to other economic cohorts makes it more politically attractive--making it easier to improve service to those who depend on it.<br /><br />@poncho: When I say "economic conservative", I'm referring to a broad spectrum of folks, not all of which are oil company shills or road hogs (though the IGMFU crowd is certainly well-represented). Overall, I agree with what you say. <br /><br />Last weekend, I went with the family up to Vancouver, BC (drove), and one thing I noticed that in both Seattle and Vancouver, there was extensive bus infrastructure (median park-and-rides, bus lanes) along I-5 and BC99 that wasn't there on my prior trip. Both cities have gotten lots of press for their rail expansions (SkyTrain and Central Link), but continued improvements to bus infrastructure are also important.EngineerScottyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005863528905991434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-53541456203312787622010-08-13T19:37:21.738-07:002010-08-13T19:37:21.738-07:00Great post!!!
In my opinion, transit loses when i...Great post!!!<br /><br />In my opinion, transit loses when its seen as little more than a social service for the poor and disabled. Transit needs to be a public service that benefits everyone including but not exclusively the poor and disabled. If its designed for middle class and upper class riders, it will benefit the poor because the middle and upper classes are picky since theyre choice riders and will only ride if it is good... (good frequencies, safe and clean vehicles and stations, extensive network, decent travel times, few problem riders, decent operating hours). And politically it needs to be of use to all people given the public funding(whether they refuse to use it for their own bias is another story). Plus there are huge societal benefits in having a mix of classes, races and incomes sharing and interacting in a confined space.<br /><br />I think transit systems that have done large capital projects have found that it is essential to keep a balance. Those investing largely on buses (like both Seattle and Ottawa until recently) have found that to be inadequate and also need to invest in rail. Likewise those largely investing in rail have found you cant just build rail and neglect the bus system, LA is a good example of this.<br /><br />I do think its time that TriMet spend some time and money, and focus on building up the bus system more. Reintroduce articulated buses, renew the fleet of buses eliminating all high floors, express buses on more express lines (improving the service hours of those that currently exist), BRT & rapid bus, some SE-SW crosstown service via the new Sellwood bridge, improving the underutilized SW portland and outer SE bus service (will also require Portland to invest in sidewalks), improving frequencies and weekend service after cutbacks, implementing owl service after its ~25 year hiatus, maybe an on or off-line freeway station for I-5 express buses at Barbur TC. It would be great to do a bus transit measure similar to the recent one in Seattle that launched the rapid buses there.<br /><br />I'm not sure "economic conservatives" is the right description because they want lavish big government spending on roads, highways and bridges and have not the slightest problem with subsidies to automobiles, oil companies and their wars and suburban development. Additionally, they have no problem whatsoever with public spending on toll-less road and bridge infrastructure which singlehandedly put the private taxpaying transit, railroad and ferry companies out of business (that paid all their operating costs, all the infrastructure construction and maintenance costs plus maintenance for the adjacent roads).<br /><br /><i>When someone makes a statement that light rail is not an "essential service", or that it is "anti-transit"--it is good to ask of them what their vision for the transit system is. Chances are, their vision is one of minimalism--they believe that transit has a limited (and specific) role to play in the overall economy and infrastructure of a place, and that attempts at expansion are out of line.</i><br /><br />Excellent point!ponchonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-90014445839100172972010-08-13T18:51:40.154-07:002010-08-13T18:51:40.154-07:00Thanks for covering an important issue. To be cle...Thanks for covering an important issue. To be clear, OPAL Environmental Justice Oregon is not anti-rail, nor have we ever called for a moratorium on light rail development. Any attribution as such is unsupported and incorrect. <br /><br />On a theoretical level, OPAL is not "transit-minimalist". In fact, OPAL contends that safe, accessible and affordable public transit is a basic right and an environmental justice concern, particularly as it impacts low-income communities of color, who tend towards greater transit-dependency. The more coverage and accessibility a regional system can provide, the better. Bus service is the backbone of our system with two-thirds of our daily boardings. Since we cannot replace the majority of bus rides with light-rail, we should not be spending limited dollars on rail expansion (which will chase a few choice-riders), where it could otherwise stave off untenable service cuts and fare increases (which could inhibit many bus-dependent riders). It's less about "essential" v. "non-essential" and more about making smart decisions in a tough economic climate to ensure that the system is accessible for the most bus-dependent riders, who have fewer and fewer transit alternatives. There are pros and cons to different modes of transit, and TriMet has shown that, in context, they can work in harmony. OPAL would proudly support the Total Transit System, including rail expansion, if we could guarantee basic quality bus service for those who rely on it most.<br /><br />Final note: Despite this disagreement on fiscal priorities, OPAL supports this ballot measure, assuming TriMet is committed to a process that solicits community input and equitably distributes dollars and targets investment to improve accessibility and service for all bus riders.Jon Ostarhttp://www.opalpdx.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-58703697105486563282010-08-13T09:54:36.394-07:002010-08-13T09:54:36.394-07:00Well said, Scotty.
I think a really top-notch, he...Well said, Scotty.<br /><br />I think a really top-notch, heavily invested and easy-to-navigage bus system can be as transit-maximalist as anything out there. But that doesn't seem to happen often, so maybe it's purely theoretical.Michael, Portland Afoothttp://portlandafoot.orgnoreply@blogger.com