tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post7649558100002198140..comments2023-09-21T01:51:15.719-07:00Comments on The Dead Horse Times: Micro-routesEngineerScottyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11005863528905991434noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-5463386937443753312010-08-27T12:42:48.053-07:002010-08-27T12:42:48.053-07:00Do we know what the permanent solution is for this...Do we know what the permanent solution is for this intersection? What kind of signalization or signage is being installed?<br /><br />If you look at this old 1943 transit map of Portland you see little (Y) and (L) symbols at the end of the bus lines... I have to believe these indicate how they turned around, L being loop and Y being 3 point turn. (Obviously at that time it was still the WH streetcar but look at other bus routes in the system.)<br /><br />1943 Portland Traction Company map<br />http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmchuff/2433839246/ponchonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-6569638100200691022010-08-27T11:16:15.960-07:002010-08-27T11:16:15.960-07:00Interesting. I didn't pay much attention to T...Interesting. I didn't pay much attention to TriMet back in 1998, so I'm not aware of the program. I was also wondering about the 2400 series busses; it's unfortunate to hear that they were junk. <br /><br />How often did these routes run? And, to ask the same question as asked of the VTA "Community Bus" above, how were they marketed? <br /><br />I'm surprised that there isn't any through bus service on I-205 between Tualatin and Oregon City (stopping infrequently, perhaps at Meridian Park, Stafford, Willamette, West Linn, OC TC, Gladstone, Clackamas, and CTC). I seem to recall such a service existing before, but if it did, its long gone. This would be an excellent place to run a BRT-like service, and if offered at reasonable frequencies (i.e. more than once an hour on weekdays only), it could be competitive.<br /><br />Far too often, though, one sees the belief that because crappy service does poorly on a given corridor, good service won't do well.EngineerScottyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005863528905991434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-64159772171443189612010-08-26T20:39:59.615-07:002010-08-26T20:39:59.615-07:00Pictures of the 2400s. Apparently vehicle 2402 wa...Pictures of the 2400s. Apparently vehicle 2402 was in service last year (nice hybrid paint scheme - old colors but new logos) but I haven't seen it once this year.<br /><br />http://www.busdude.com/HTML/TM_collins_3000.htmErik H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14754458674336580085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-62282734260401677892010-08-26T20:37:40.291-07:002010-08-26T20:37:40.291-07:00Isn't this exactly what TriMet tried back in 1...Isn't this exactly what TriMet tried back in 1998 with "The Local"?<br /><br />Use cutaway buses (i.e. LIFT buses) on very short routes, almost all of them functioned as MAX shuttles and carried an "S" suffix (i.e. 50s Cornell Oaks). There were also a couple of routes that ran out of the Oregon City TC.<br /><br />After about a year or so, the M9000 series buses were relegated back to paratransit duty and the 1900s (and presumably the 1600s out east) took over. The 2400s were purchased for these routes but had a nasty tendency to blow up (at least two or three of the vehicles had catastrophic engine fires) resulting in the premature retirement of that fleet. A couple 2400s remained for the Washington Park Shuttle (which now uses 1900s) and Blue Lake Shuttle (which no longer operates).<br /><br />The 46 (North Hillsboro) and 53 (Artic/Allen) are relics of "The Local", along with the 154-Willamette, and the various Happy Valley routes. I want to say the 87 was also a "The Local" route.<br /><br />The 67 short-line to Cornell Oaks (soon to be discontinued) is a direct result of the discontinuation of the 50s route.Erik H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14754458674336580085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-42494850710879074692010-08-26T11:44:53.002-07:002010-08-26T11:44:53.002-07:00I'm assuming you are referring to VTA's &q...I'm assuming you are referring to VTA's "community busses"--I found quite a few references to them, but not so much to the results (praise, criticism, other analysis)--if you could point me to some, it would be useful. Given that the program started in 2008, I suspect any "results" are inconclusive due to the recession--a fact that I try to keep in mind as I gleefully bash WES.<br /><br />That said; it appears that the "community bus" program is intended to be a system of local circulators designed to serve short trips within a neighborhood (complete with a lower fare structure than the regular bus routes). One problem with this sort of trip is that it competes with walking. Another issue with VTA's implementation is that it's hourly, weekday-only service--in other words, not attractive service. (And a final issue is that while San Fran is a great transit community, Silicon Valley is not--the land use patterns found there are going to handicap ANY transit you build.)<br /><br />I suspect a better opportunity for micro-routes is in last mile service--permitting someone who is travelling on transit at a distance to get the last mile (or so) to their destination; without having to walk a long distance (often in a pedestrian-hostile environment) or having to bring a bike with them--or to connect with transit in the first place, it it isn't close by. The situation Jay illustrates. Here in Washington County, we've got numerous office parks and such, which are within jogging distance of the MAX line--but which have no (or infrequent) bus service getting you the last little bit; making the entire system not useful for the commutes of those who work there. <br /><br />But if you can point me (and other readers) to other resources on what VTA has been doing, and how well it's worked, it would be much appreciated!EngineerScottyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005863528905991434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-83541316533987161282010-08-26T10:52:48.592-07:002010-08-26T10:52:48.592-07:00VTA in Santa Clara County CA tried this. Google se...VTA in Santa Clara County CA tried this. Google search will show the results.<br /><br />I think one of the biggest downsides was that since you now have a "different" bus in the fleet, there were new costs on the maintainance end - re-training mechanics, keeping another set of spare parts, etc...murphstahoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17378354136823393492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-73256032351503042042010-08-26T07:06:00.537-07:002010-08-26T07:06:00.537-07:00The problem with the 51, 18, and 63 (and numerous ...The problem with the 51, 18, and 63 (and numerous other similar routes) isn't that they're short--it's that they are social service routes which cover territory which isn't transit friendly domain--generally middle-to-upper-class residential neighborhoods with few amenities. The exception to this is the 63, serving Washington Park--but it competes directly with the Washington Park Shuttle (which transports passengers through the park between PGE Park and the Zoo MAX station, but without going through nearby residential streets.<br /><br />And in each case, I'd use the smallest rolling stock on these routes that I can find.<br /><br />As you note though, many short routes might be better handled as extensions or branches to existing major routes--this gives 'em a bit of political cover. (A similar phenomenon occurs in some software companies--the worst thing you can do with quality assurance engineers is to call them quality assurance engineers; it's like painting a big target on their back for the bean-counters).EngineerScottyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005863528905991434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-55799870242424160162010-08-25T23:43:43.150-07:002010-08-25T23:43:43.150-07:00I'm skeptical of a micro-route given that simi...I'm skeptical of a micro-route given that similar micro-routes in the West Hills are very poor performers (51, 18, 63). I guarantee it would be one of those bus lines with 2 people onboard and there would certainly be no night or weekend service. It would only be a matter of time before it got the complete ax. It helped a lot in terms of ridership and support that Willamette Heights was getting frequent service as an extension of the major 15 bus because Willamette Heights could never support that level of service if it wasnt on part of a major bus line.ponchonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7924903188810610343.post-12679772318067330492010-08-25T20:26:20.568-07:002010-08-25T20:26:20.568-07:00How about one up and down Columbia between NE 33rd...How about one up and down Columbia between NE 33rd and Pier Park, and another from Columbia and NE 47th up Cornfoot and Alderwood, hitting all those jobs around PDX. <br /><br />I used to work for a Boeing contractor (the big twin hangars there) at Cornfoot and 47th (don't own a car, don't want one), and the closest I could get to work via transit was the 75 bus stop at the corner of Columbia and NE 47th, followed by a 1/2 mile-plus walk up 47th (no sidewalks) in the rain with FedEx triple trailers buzzing me by 18 inches and kicking up all kinds of shit on me along the way.<br /><br />And then there were the times construction was going on, and the 75 was detoured right onto Lombard from 42nd, so my walk was well over a mile. And I wasn't the only one. Out of about 25 people on each shift, roughly half of us rode the bus in to work. And this is just one facility amongst dozens and dozens...JayinPortlandnoreply@blogger.com